p 51 mustang vs messerschmitt me 262

Hubert Lange, a Me 262 pilot, said: "the Messerschmitt Me 262's most dangerous opponent was the British Hawker Tempestextremely fast at low altitudes, highly manoeuvrable and heavily armed." The P-51 is a purebred fighter, agile and fast. As can be seen in this picture, the razorback eventually gives way to bubbletop. The Facebook Like button and social widgets are used to interact with the Facebook social networkand are provided byFacebook Ireland Ltd. Note that he wearing a promotional hat for the movie Red Tails which incorporated his story. Join in if you dare! Bf-109 vs Zero U.S. Air Force photo. Several things make the Me 262 better than the P-51. He is the Adolf Galland witnessed events from the ground. The Me 262 was the first operational jet fighter in history. aircraft, which blew up just as it lifted off the ground. Feb 1, 2010 Thread starter #7 Zniperguy114 Airman 67 0 as later marks became much faster but handling worsened. MiGs, and they were so much faster. The transfer of data can only take place anonymously and with prior consent. 8 minutes read. Many P-51s evaded attacking MiG-15s by turning hard, but about twenty P-51s were shot down. [ref: Hitlers Jet Plane by Mano Ziegler] but it had important innovations from which it excelled. ' There had been a scandalous shortage of 110-gallon auxiliary fuel tanks at Ramitelli, which resourceful maintainers had resolved by both hook and crook, and now those teardrop-shaped fuel tanks, each worth the price of a new Chevrolet sedan, went tumbling into the void. Even after the Reich introduced the Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter, which was faster than any warplane in Allied hands, Brown and the other Tuskegee Airmen continued to do what fighter pilots always do: They fought aggressively. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. designed a superior twin-engine fighter. The ace shot down a four-engined bomber and a P-51 for his 257th So which aircraft is better? (B) 2 x 20mm Hispano cannons and 4 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. Which Allied aircraft scored the most air-to-air kills against the Me 262 in WWII? May 2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: CrazyD ], http://forums.bfnation.net/viewtopic.php?t=9765, http://www.mysa.com/mysanantonio/links/yeager.shtml, http://www.acepilots.com/planes/p51d_mustang.html, http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51_10.html, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. the Tuskegee Airmen flew their longest mission of the war, it enabled the bombers to go a longer distance into Germany and destroy their infrastructure, in which critical work was performed by American factory workers who were black and white, all mingled together on the factory floor, History of Army Corps of Engineers Projects: Missile and Space Programs to the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, How 80 Coast Guardsmen Saved an Alaskan Town During Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1919, 100th Anniversary of the American Aircraft Carrier, Digital Magazine, Command Failure: Lloyd Fredendall and the Battle of Kasserine Pass, Tactical Napping and Other Tips to Sleep Well On Deployment, Warrior Transition Units Become Soldier Recovery Units, SB-1 Defiant Expands Flight Envelope | Video, Top Military Shots DEC 13, 2019 | Photo Gallery, Top Military Shots Oct 18, 2019 | Photo Gallery, National K-9 Veterans Day | Photo Gallery, Top Military Shots DEC 5, 2019 | Photo Gallery, Top Military Shots Nov 15, 2019 | Photo Gallery, Top Military Shots Oct 24, 2019 | Photo Gallery. By clicking on "Customise" you can select which profiling cookies to activate. Luftwaffe fighter arms nemesis. observed hits all over the wings and fuselage.. B-17s didn't have door gunners. Some people prefer the look of the P-51 over the Me 262. Messerschmitt ME 262 - Die Wartung [Maintenance] (1944 . The Spitfire? It is unclear who was flying the Me 262, (A) 8 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. The Me 262 provided them with something they had never had before speed. The break should start much sooner than is necessary when fighting Me 109s or Fw 190s. View the Cookie Policy. Galland was highly impressed by the aircraft's capabilities and speed and became an advocate or the aircraft's mass production. If attacked by an Me 262, the P-51 could easily turn and maneuver inside the enemy jet, placing itself in a position to meet the jet head on or to get in a quick burst of gunfire if the enemy overshot. Kulp sustained severe wounds but survived. This is because the brushless setup is not working very hard compared to the brushed motor. (Air Force af.mil)] Over Western Europe there wasn't such a discrepancy in pilot training or aircraft performance even at the end of the war. Personal Data collected: Tracker; Usage Data. 43:47. Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. via Asisbiz This would allow pilots such as Franz Schall to shoot down a score of Allied aircraft, and Schall himself shot down 17 enemy fighters including 10 P-51s. Hit by 30mm minengeschoss : survived. Size: 1624inch(4060cm) 1218inch(3045cm) 1624inch(4060cm) . MiGs, and they were so much faster. Brantley outmaneuvered his adversary and poured rounds of fire into the jet fighter that killed its accomplished ace pilot, Oberleutnant (Lt. Col.) Ernst Wrner. Lastly, the Me 262 had a bit of a wildcard role it was tested as a potential interceptor for Americas flying bombs (such as the V1) and even a makeshift transport aircraft. He joined the 361st Fighter Group in . In order to attack the jets in the air, the P-51 needed to dive in order to be able to close on the enemy jets when they attacked the bombers. The car is only 4 mph with like-for-like gearing than the brushed setup it previously had - but the difference is whereas the brushed motor got quite hot, the brushless motor was completely cold. Its innovative design inspired many modern aircraft today. None of this prevented the 332nd Fighter Group, commanded by Col. Benjamin O. Davis, from performing well on bomber escort missions and engaging the Luftwaffe the German air force in aerial combat. Equation alignment in aligned environment not working properly. [ref: Ziegler]. I caught up with A piece of the plane, either the canopy or one of the jet orifices, flew off. "Although our propeller-driven F-51 Mustangs were no match for the The Messerschmitt Me 262, nicknamed Schwalbe or swallow, was a force to be reckoned with in the skies during World War II. Additionally Uffz. Faster light-weight P-51H might have been equal of Me-262 in a straight-line race, 13:12. As a result, Me 262 pilots were relatively safe from the Allied fighters, as long as they did not allow themselves to get drawn into low-speed turning contests and saved their maneuvering for higher speeds. One of Browns fellow airmen, Capt. The Messerschmitt Me 262, the first operational jet fighter aircraft in history, served multiple purposes during WWII and beyond. I confirm that I want to send my data to receive news and promotions via email. fast jets in air-to-air battles, we knew from our simulated 3 years ago. But theres one area where the P-51 shines: range. And finally, lets not forget about aesthetics the sleek lines and swept wings of the Me 262 are pretty distinct from the boxy shape and straight branches of the P-51. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Clostermann. Why did Sidewinder missiles score so well before Vietnam? The North American Aviation P-51 Mustang is an American long-range, single-seat fighter and fighter-bomber used during World War II and the Korean War, among other conflicts. while laminar-winged Mustang was designed to fly optimally at 400+MPH. ), This is not an answer but just a repeat of the same point made in the question: ", @PieterGeerkens So, as soon as an OP mentions a possible answer it is off limit to everyone then? A design is a team effort, still, Schmued deserves much credit, By combining the three tables, of known Me262 losses; claims by USAAF; and claims by RAF, in Foreman, Me 262 Combat Diary (1990), assuming that the German numbers are correct, and also that all the dates are as stated, I have obtained the following statistics. Both planes also significantly impacted the war the P-51 helped to turn the tide in favor of the Allies, while the Me 262 was a significant threat to Allied forces. Discussion in 'Aircraft' started by Sinster, May 7, 2003. Coast Air Museum in Santa Rosa and an old friend of Col. Rogers. or Mustangs shot down early MiG-3 propeller fighters (??). (pushing throttle on a Merlin V-12 engine shoved pilots back into their seats). ", LA Times: If a Me-262 ever slowed down, it became vulnerable, Today, the P-51 continues to fly in air shows as a symbol of American military prowess and talent in aircraft design. Up to 1,000 lbs (454kg) of bombs, rockets or fuel droptanks. Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 (2019) L'argus. (arlingtoncemetry.net), P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? crept up the fuselage to the cockpit. (arlingtoncemetry.net)] Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? for take-off, but at that moment the P-51D of 361st FG pilot 1Lt Urban L. Drew The German Luftwaffe Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe (Swallow) was the first operational jet fighter and appeared in air combat towards the end of World War Two. The Yak-9? Drew recounted: I had started shooting from about 60 Firstly, it was used as a fighter plane to battle against Allied aircraft. Too fast to catch for the escorting Allied fighters, the Me 262s were almost impossible to head off. I have found twelve pairs of duplicate Werknummers, i.e. As the formation passed over Achmer, Drew spotted two Me 262s on the airfield. The aim was to attack jets on their landing approach, when they were at their most vulnerable, travelling slowly, with flaps down and incapable of rapid acceleration. The Me 262 could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. At high-altitude, FW-190 became vulnerable as it lost performance and maneuverability. had crucial advantages in range, speed, maneuverability. survive a jet confrontation but only if strict, disciplined they knew they would be completely outnumbered and The Messerschmitt Me 262, nicknamed Schwalbe (German: "Swallow") in fighter versions, or Sturmvogel (German: "Storm Bird") in fighter-bomber versions, is a fighter aircraft and fighter-bomber that was designed and produced by the German aircraft manufacturer Messerschmitt.It was the world's first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft.. . while escorting P-51D Mustangs were poised to convert altitude to diving speed. . [ref: Ziegler for 515MPH]. P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262: WE FOUGHT THE ARYAN RACES to the death..WE ARE BRAVE AND STRONG.and if THEY show up . He pushed his Me 262 into a steep left bank to dive toward the American fighter. euronews (en franais) More from MotorTrend. All data presented is for entertainment purposes and should not be used operationally. However, this event was tempered by the loss of three more jets to Mustangs on November 4. Underground Messerschmitt Me 262 factory "Weingut I" [Vineyard I] Mhldorf am Inn, Germany (May 1945) PVT.Snafu. 8 when Major Walter Nowotny, the Kommandos renowned leader and one of the most Not only did it blow past the competition, literally (with a top speed of 190 kilometers per hour faster than the North American P-51 Mustang), but it also gave the faltering German Luftwaffe a brief moment of superiority that they hadnt experienced in quite some time. . Drew, who had been leading the 375th FS on an escort mission for a box of B-17s on their return from targeting one of the refineries, observed a dogfight taking place below the bombers and, leaving his section, had dropped down with his own flight to investigate. Unlike wing-heavy Me-262, Me-163 was very agile. This is not say the Me 262 was invulnerable to enemy fighters: The Me 262 was difficult to counter because its high speed and rate of climb made it hard to intercept. Top speed of Me-163 was 600MPH. Somersault-while-firing trick was actually done by Richard Candelaria of another USAAF squadron It would not be until Oct. 7 that a Mustang flame come out near the right wing root. But it was very slow and fragile. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. I confirm that I have read, consent and agree to The Aviation Geek Club Privacy Policy. Learn how your comment data is processed. 2nd Lt. Charles V. Brantley became the second 332nd pilot to engage an Me 262. Mustang's design was refined rather than radical, 4 x 20mm long-barrel Hispano-Suiza cannons in wings. I confirm that I want to send my data to receive news and promotions via email. I am not going to downvote your answer because I appreciate your time and effort, but others here may since it offers nothing new not already included in the question (except another potentially good book I may add to my library), so be prepared (and please don't take it personally if someone does! U.S. Air Force photo. For this reason, the data transferred to GA will be made anonymous through a proxy system called "My Agile Pixel" which will replace your personal data such as the IP address with anonymous data and therefore not traceable to you. Oberfahnrich Russel. Whether youre talking about aesthetics or pure aerial prowess, its easy to see why the P51 Mustang will continue to soar through the skies for years. Me-262 pilots were supposed to limit themselves to hit-and-run tactics on American bombers, The A-1A was the first model of 262 to be able to mount R4M air-to-air rockets underneath its wings. Fw-190 vs P-47 bf-109. Welcome to WWII Forums! Lee Archer returned from the war he was the Tuskegee Airmens high scorer with four aerial victories only to be refused service in a railroad dining car while traveling with his wife to his next military assignment. F-35 Lightning II vs F/A-18E Super Hornet, F-35 Lightning II vs F-16E Fighting Falcon BLOCK 60. Fw-190 vs P-51 fw-190-wurger. But which fighter was better? The P-51 has a more traditional look with its straight wings and boxy shape. IMO it is hard to compare the P-51 and teh Bf-109, simply because they were designed at least until the K variant of the Bf-109 for generaly different purpouses. Why was the Me 262, one of the first operational jet fighters in history, developed and built? or WW II has got to be the F6F as has been previously stated. Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. The words of general Ion Dobran, a former Romanian Bf . firing from about 400 yards, with 30 degrees deflection. (conservapedia.com)] . Very good article, one that needs to be repeated again and again. Place of processing: Ireland , The First Engagement Between a P-51 and an Me 262 and the Death of Luftwaffe Ace Walter Nowotny, I confirm that I have read, consent and agree to The Aviation Geek Club. But beyond its aesthetics, the P51 boasts impressive speed, a remarkable range, and an impressive armament that includes six .50 caliber machine guns. Blitz VI. Yes, thanks Italian Philosopher - this tactic used by Tempests, called the, yes, after answering I re-read the question in more detail -ish. However, it soon proved its capabilities in almost every theater of war and became the most successful fighter in history, with 15,000 units produced during wartime. The Aviation Geek Club and The Aviation Geek Club logo are Dario Leone's registered marks. ultimately overwhelmed by multitudes of pouncing Mustangs. His adversary, a jet with a steel blue-gray camouflage, Lane wrote later, was piloted by 7-kill ace Leutnant (2nd Lt.) Alfred Ambs. We easily out-maneuvered him, and when he dived pass us, I realized the enemy aircraft was jet-propelled. The pilot concluded his account by warning starkly that, Care should be taken when breaking into this type of aircraft. There is a massive scope there to unlock more speed with . Buttner successfully bailed out of his \"burning\" (according to historian Manfred Boehme) ME 262 over Kiel-Holtenau after being shot up by Mustangs, possibly the ME262 in this clip though the jet does not appear to be on fire (perhaps there was a fire in the cockpit?). US F-51 pilots trained against US jets and mentioned that scoring a hit on a MiG-15 would be very difficult: They came over the top of Joe, and (f-106deltadart.com)] I then pulled up and circled over the spot where he went down. First, it was a capable fighter plane, able to engage in aerial combat with enemy aircraft and support Allied bombers. [emphasis added], During March, Me 262 fighter units were able, for the first time, to mount large-scale attacks on Allied bomber formations. He commented that the jet fuel's inflammability "made a kill almost certain when it was in your sights" - he commented that they had to carry a lot of fuel. Forced to defend himself, he shot down two P-51 Mustang fighters.

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